MAJOR LOCAL CONTROVERSY: Independence Day Activities – Should They Be Held On Saturday Or Sunday?!!

People who complain about us celebrating the holiday on Sunday because it doesn’t honor our history don’t know their history. The day the events take place have changed historically. Back in 1779, when July 4th fell on a Sunday, our entire nation celebrated the holiday on Monday, July 5th. That’s in addition to the fact that Congress approved the declaration of independence on July 2nd, not July 4th. (I’m waiting to see people get upset about that one)

I agree with having it on Saturday. Regardless of religious issues, I would much rather have a great day on Saturday and a celebration Saturday night and then be able to sleep in on Sunday morning. That sounds a lot better than partying all day Sunday and having to drag myself out of bed early Monday morning to get to work.

It’s true: the debate never ceases, and maybe that’s a good thing, given that doing so is exercising the very freedoms and liberties that Independence Day is supposed to commemorate.

What troubles me the most is that well-meaning Christian Americans take deliberate measures to keep the Sabbath holy (for themselves), while compromising a national day of remembrance (for everyone else). It is, in my opinion, a purely selfish act: to collectively place more importance on personally-held beliefs in iron-age fantasy above the very real and tangible historical significance of what Independence Day in America symbolizes.

Putting God before Country is like putting friends before family. Especially considering that most of the founding fathers we have to thank for framing and influencing our most sacred national documents were Deists at best.

With that said, I’ll offer a counterpoint to my own personal distaste for the motivation behind moving the celebration. Given the tremendous efforts and financial support of countless individuals to organize the public events and displays…when my fellow citizens of Idaho Falls gather to celebrate, I will join them, no matter the day. Because even if it seems like a superficial substitute for the real thing, it’s worth my time to express gratitude to those who walked this Earth before me and made it possible for me to even have the choice to participate, or not—and to those who went out of their way to build floats, practice their dance and musical performances, pimp their rides, sponsor the fireworks display, etc.

If, on Sunday July 4, I choose to wave (or burn!) the flag in my own private ceremony, then it is my right to do so.

Because after all, it’s a free country, right?

I was born and raised in IF, and have come to accept the tyranny of the “majority” (yes, it’s my pet euphamism) in its re-scheduling of national and traditional holidays to fit its dictates. Not worth arguing over – just laugh at them and accept it – they don’t care how stupid they look to the real world. Heck, I can even remember when the Fourth of July was a relatively minor celebration in IF because all the wards and businesses were saving their parade floats and reserving their funds for the Pioneer Days celebration less than three weeks later, which was much larger and had better fireworks. Some patriotism. The “majority” always has put its selfish desires first and refused to acknowledge, much less accommodate the “minority,” even though that “minority” is truly the majority in the United States.

Look on the bright side – it’s another day off work, and real Americans will get to celebrate two days instead of just one.

If you feel so strongly about the need to celebrate on the 4th, look around at other communities and find one that is celebrating on the 4th and go there. I, myself, feel strong enough about not celebrating on the Sabbath that I am traveling a great distance to be in Idaho Falls for their celebration. Idaho Falls shows their commitment and patriotism with all of the efforts they put into celebrating our great country. It is rather offensive that their patriotism is being put into debate because of which day they choose to celebrate. Maybe you have become spoiled with that level of commitment, your eyes need to be opened. My community completely canceled all city sponsored patriotic events last year because of financial difficulties.

Such Weak Sauce has it exactly right! It is Frank’s money! How dare you tell him how he has to spend it! What are you communists? We are not! We believe a man has the right to spend his molney as he sees fit, and if you don’t like it, go somewhere else! Pokatello will have a fine celebration on Sunday. Go have fun there, but stop telling Frank how he has to spend his money.

Kevin, your argument for displacing the holiday is just what I was getting at. Using your personal belief in 1st century mythology to influence the celebratory traditions of your fellow citizens is obtuse and self-serving.

You argue that the God of the Bible asked you to keep the Sabbath holy, and by your own admission, you are duty-bound to obey his commandments. But the God of the Bible also asked you to stone your children to death if they disobey you (Deuteronomy 21:18-21). Christians are also led to believe that they are to stone to death anyone who does not keep the Sabbath holy (Numbers 15:32-56).

Yet these are things I presume you do not do.

My point is that your rationale is based purely on fiction. Whether the majority of our residents (Mormon or otherwise) believe in this fiction, it is without a doubt the most ridiculous justification for moving a holiday, much less closing a place of business, not mowing your lawn, etc.

At least those who support Saturday celebrations because they want to sleep in on Sunday have valid arguments based on logic and rational 21st-century thinking.

Nevermind,

Stop with the “were Diests at best” nonsense. You can choose to believe as you wish, but you do not have the right to distort the facts. I have studied the words of the Founders themselves, and not the interpretations you have studied, and I can say without a doubt, they were men who believed in God, and believed in His continual activity is mens lives.

Far too many have spent too much effort trying to distort the truth in the beliefs the Founders held. And regretably, Nevermind, you have fallen prey to their lies.

Idaho Falls is not the only city in this country that hold celebrations on the 3rd when the 4th falls on a Sunday. As noted above, even as secular a city as Chicago can see the profitability of holding celebrations on Saturday. Please stop trying to make this a religious issue.

Nevermind…. have you ever considered for a moment that your belief that there isn’t a God is the fictional view on this life? I on one hand believe that men are free to believe how, where or what they may. We are not forcing you to celebrate on any other day than the day you wish to celebrate Independence Day on.

Several thousands travel here so they can celebrate Independence Day with Idaho Falls on a day other than Sunday. The Chamber said they’d support a group if they wanted to invite them to a separate celebration as well as the one already planned. I’m sure the City would also be able to provide any necessary permits for events that were going on, if the demand was sufficient enough.

You know… sometimes, when I am having a Birthday, not all my family is able to make it on my Birthday. If fact, on my 30th Birthday, my nephew died, so we didn’t celebrate it at all as a family. Throughout the week, as individuals in my family felt comfortable with doing so, they brought me cards and wished me a Happy Birthday. Even without tragedy interfering, it’s difficult to get the majority of my family together on somebody’s birthday. When the most people can get together, is usually when the party is put together. It doesn’t take away from the fact they love me and it certainly doesn’t change or diminish the significance of the actual day I was born.

I just wish everyone on this forum a joyful and happy Independence Day, regardless of when they celebrate it.

I would just like to add that the point is that Independence day which is a NATIONAL holiday the point is to CELEBRATE our freedom TOGETHER as a nation, not seperately based on different beliefs. Our DIFFERENCES are what make us American! The fact that I can write this on this page and others can read it and disagree with it, is one of the reasons I love to be in America. What disgusts me most about the decision is that people keep saying majority rules and that the majority favor it on the 3rd. We are not discussing a religious holiday but an AMERICAN holiday and the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS celebrate Independence day on the FOURTH of JULY! For every one city you point out that celebrates on Saturday (because I know that will be the next argument) I can point out 100′s that celebrate on the 4th!!! Also for those that say that the declaration was signed on the 2cnd so maybe would should celebrate on the 2cnd that’s fine but what if the 2cnd lands on a SUNDAY??? Will it be changed back to the 4th? What if the person that BOUGHT the holiday wanted to celebrate on Sunday EVERY YEAR? Would those that argue that it’s Frank’s money so he can do as he pleases still agree? Or do you agree because it so HAPPENS that you share Frank’s Beliefs? As Americans and only as an American? ARE you REALLY comforted by the fact that ANYONE could buy the holiday and dictate how and when they will share it with the city???? It is not a private display it is a PUBLIC IT IS NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK> SO you sacrifice ONE day for your country? WHAT DO THE MEN AND WOMEN OF THE MILITARY SACRAFICE FOR YOU TO HAVE ALL THE REST OF YOUR SUNDAYS AND DAYS OF THE WEEK? WHAT DID OUR FOUNDING FATHERS SACRAFICE?

Whew… sounds like Melissa Turttle is blowing a lot of hot air today (as usual). Are you that dense? Are you that anti-religion to try to make this a religious issue when it’s not? The City Counsel made this decision for monetary reasons and for accommodating the majority of the citizens. If half the citizens don’t show because it’s on a Sunday – and they WILL come and participate when it’s on a Saturday, vendors lose out, citizens lose out, the community loses out.

I anticipate that regardless of truth, Melissa will continue to try to propagate her fantasies in an effort to promote her anti-religious beliefs.

Wow, Judy. Let’s accuse someone of being hateful! YOu know me so well to call me anti-religion huh? Well, I don’t think you have any right to say so. You know nothing of what I believe religiously because this argument is not about RELIGION as you say! Well I believe in God, and I believe GOD gave me the RIGHT to live FREE in a country that celebrate that FREEDOM!!! I also believe that a TRUE christian loves one another REGARDLESS of what belief they have and WHAT religion they choose to claim!!! I am arguing that we gather TOGETHER to celebrate our differences! What I post is based on the FREEDOM OF RELIGION!! What you don’t like is that you have no valid argument against it other than MONEY! IF you are so RELIGIOUS then why are you more comfortable arguing the isssue is about MONEY than about your so called FAITH? WHere is your truth? Again, where in any records is there proof that the turn out would be down? Because you wouldn’t come? I doubt that entirely! What citizens would not show up to support their COUNTRY???? WHAT CITIZENS WOULD STAY LOCKED UP IN THEIR HOME ON THE DAY OUR COUNTRY DECLARED OUR FREEDOM TO THE WORLD???? Once again this is not a decision that should rest on people that are as close minded as Judy is. At least my mind has SOMETHING in it worth sharing Judy. IF the city wishes to look to majority on the issue they should look to the ONLY MAJORITY THAT COUNTS > AMERICAN MAJORITY TO CELEBRATE WITH AMERICA ON AN AMERICAN HOLIDAY> I GIVE YOU FREE LEAVE TO ARGUE AGAINST THAT JUDY!!!

ONe more thing Judy. I am going to ask you to use the manners you may or may not have learned in Kindergarten and not attack any one personally because you don’t know me. If you would like to make it personal then contact me personally I am on facebook and I would be glad to let you attempt to justify your reasons to speak to me in the personal way you just have. Also, if you don’t agree with what I have to say. DON”T READ IT! KNOW ONE IS FORCING YOU TO CHANGE YOUR BELIEFS ARE THEY????

@america4ever, Kevin, etc

I get what you’re saying. You’re just trying to stick up for your religious convictions and world views. That’s actually pretty cool (and by that I mean pretty American), even if we vehemently disagree about all the particulars.

Not to sound too harsh here, but the day will come when the magical birth of Jesus, born into the world as his own Dad via virgin birth, will be just as nutty as Martian canals, Thor’s hammer and the trials and tribulations of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Breathe, Melissa. Breathe.

Wow, I find it shocking that so many people are getting SO worked up over this. Could we just agree to disagree and be thankful that we live in a country where we are free to believe – or not believe – in a religion? I mean at least we’re still celebrating it right? It’s not like we’re being banned from celebrating the 4th of July because it falls on a Sunday, we’re just having a minor change in the exact day of the events. And heck, the way the traffic with the fireworks go, we’ll still be grumbling about it.. erm.. I mean ‘celebrating’ well past midnight as we try to go home, so technically we’re going into the actual 4th right?! Sorry.. just trying to find the optimism in everything

You know a lot of LDS people choose to celebrate Halloween on the 30th when the 31st of October happens to fall on a Sunday. Some people refuse to hand out candy to these children. If you are really, truly this upset about the fireworks, perhaps it would be wise to skip out on the celebrations on Saturday? I mean, no one is forcing you to go right? However, if your excuse for attending anyway is because you don’t want to miss out, perhaps you should think about all the people who don’t want to miss out but would feel wrong attending on a Sunday. Another thought – a LOT of religious people believe that God helped us achieve our freedom, so really, do you blame them for wanting to give thanks to the God that they believe helped them get freedom? I’m not saying that you have to believe that, I’m simply requesting that we all try to see from the other party’s point of view.

Melissa, I’d like to team up on this whole move the 4th of July to SUNDAY and have some ideas. There are several Melissa Tuttle’s on facebook but I cant seem to find a Melissa Tuttle in Idaho Falls. Are you a citizen of Idaho Falls? (if not I don’t think teaming up on my idea would make practical sense)

To my fellow Pastafarian, justathought #32:

I hope that day comes sooner rather than later.
—I say these things In the name of Cheese and Rice, R’Amen

Interesting discussion for sure. I wasn’t aware that any of this was that big of a deal. I can see both sides, I agree that some people are going to want to have the parade on the 4th, and I can see why the City decided to do it on Saturday. For me, either way. I’m just glad we get a great parade, fireworks show, and it costs me nothing.

Potatoes, I thin, you’re right, its because of the money.

Alice, I agree, we can’t tell a man how to spend his money, but the city could dictate what day the events take place.

Melissa, I admire your strength, but you have several facts wrong. Including your facebook page you say Damond Watkins is on the board of the chamber of commerce. I’m pretty certain he’s not on the board. You may want to correct that or you may be risking a lawsuit for false statements.

@This isAnalias
This is an Alias- If being rude to you is equal to being passionate and you are disregarding my arguments because i use CAPS than I have to say that is immature. If you actually read my arguments you are right, it isn’t about fireworks or parades and yes our group is going to join. However. The POINT is that certain people are allowed to BUY a NATIONAL HOLIDAY!! I use caps to EMPHASIS my points! If you feel I am SHOUTING at you I ask you to forgive me. I am not trying to YELL at anyone but merely trying to get my POINT across. You do things your way I do things my way. Also, I think people that tend to just allow things to go on that they disagree with just so that there is no argument are weak. That is just my opinion. When the founding fathers wrote the Declaration of Independence I assure you alot of people took offense to what they had written and they were considered to be TRAITORS and UNENGLISH! Many of their previous countrymen felt SHOCKED AND BETRAYED that the Americans felt that their king was a TYRANT! However, they never compromised their beliefs to avoid dislike or arguments against them and BELIEVE it or not the ENGLISH FELT VERY JUSTIFIED! The point is not about the fireworks but that the city government SALES a holiday and it does come with benefits. Afterall it isn’t even called the Independence Celebration but Melaleuca Freedom Celebration. I had no idea Melaleuca got their freedom on the 3rd of July! Who did they win their freedom from. Obiviously from America since they celebrate their freedom seperate from AMERICA!

OUT OF STATE: HOW DARE YOU! YOU know nothing about me or ANYTHING I BELIEVE IN> I am THE FARTHEST FROM BEING A MORMON HATER THAN YOU KNOW> SINCE AS AN ADULT I WAS BAPTISED LDS!!!! NOT TO MENTION MANY OF THE PEOPLE I LOVE AND CARE ABOUT ARE LDS!!! THEY ALSO HAPPEN TO BE AMERICAN AND DON’T BELIEVE IN SELLING NATIONAL HOLIDAYS TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER!!!! THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT HAVE DISAGREED WITH ME BUT NONE SO IMMATURE AS YOU OR JUDY! I CHOOSE TO USE MY HEAD AND MY HEART WHEN I ARGUE, I DO NOT TRY TO USE HATRED! I ASK THAT YOU ATTEMPT TO DO THE SAME!!!

This has gotten out of hand and it’s actually ridiculous. I would first of all like to state that I’m about as FAR from mormon as they come. I just am not in the business of telling people how to spend their money or their time. I think it’s a joke that Melissa has continued to spew her ideals on this message board and automatically lump EVERYONE in to being mormon just because we don’t want to have the celebrations on Sunday.

I work in a business where statistics and financial statements CAN actually prove that certain things are affected by the sabbath. I think you are a misinformed fool to believe that businesses don’t see a HUGE difference to their bottom lines on Sunday as compared to the rest of the week.

The problem as I see it is this has just become the new thing for people who are anti-mormon to be annoyed about in this area. Having come from California (Yes, I’m a Californian) and lived here for a decade I’ve come to realize that this area is strongly religious and that is just the way it is. For what it’s worth, the south is just as radical as it is in this area although with regards to another strong religious base. The real issue is here that people hate Melaleuca and VanDerSloot because he’s wealthy and able to do the things they cannot so they are jealous. Because he is mormon it just makes this worse. It didn’t help him to try to cover up the boy scout story either which is why I would never apologize for him. I will however proudly stand up for this free, CAPITALIST society and I refuse to be mad that a man who is willing to spend a giant sum of money on a celebration that everyone enjoys do so at my command. After all, this is America and he earned his money and can spend it when and where he wants.

And inevitably please come and find me on facebook too. I am far from afraid of the mormon haters in this area. What I have not understood is why they continue to stay here and blame everything wrong with the community on the mormons instead of just leaving to somewhere with less religious stranglehold (and better weather!!!).

@Tucker Mitchell
Why is it if someone disagrees with something they are automatically ANTI-MORMON or ANTI-MONEY? I admire the fact that because in our country someone can start at the bottom and reach the top comes with tremendous benefits. I just happen to believe one of those benefits should not be buying the government or a holiday. This happens ALL over the country YES, but the issue is RIGHT HERE! That is what we are arguing. And as to your argument about the south you are generalizing. I lived in VA for 4 years and I never felt the type of stonghold that there is here. YES this is a very religious area and yes there are many people that are not comfortable with that but your answer that they should MOVE is completely ridiculous! If everytime a majority ruled that people were unhappy with so they moved the only people left in America would be RICH< WHITE MEN! Yes majority is the EASIEST way to come to a concensus about certain things but it is not always the RIGHT way! Hitler had majority on his side, did that make him right? Should everyone choose to adhere to majority rules slavery would still exsist and women would have no rights! Think about that the next time you ask someone to MOVE from their HOME because they are not being heard!

@Such Weak Sauce
I will share once again something personal. I was raised poor but I DO NOT HATE MONEY. I live in a country that I have been able to raise above what was otherwise laid out for me. I am getting a college degree to become the FIRST rich TEACHER!! (HA HA) My husband is the FIRST rich COP!! (Once again ha ha) I do not hate money but yes sometimes I HATE what money can buy! Once again I will say that there may be a minority here but if you look at AMERICA the minority reverses, what then does that say to LDS members? I am not saying they should move out of the country so please do not twist my words but by your OWN words you think that when someone is outnumbered the answer is to move. Well, that would mean even now that the majority of America would not be very diverse. Although I believe and I am guessing that the majority of Americans are blue collared and poor now. So where should Frank Vandersloot move? And back to the point where would LDS members live? Now to get off the subject since you brought it up, YES I think we should all learn a foreign language. Americans are the only people I know of that do not teach our children SEVERAL languages of the world. IF we are to be an example to the world shouldn’t it be of ACCEPTANCE< TOLERANCE< LOVE OF DIVESITY AND KINDNESS??? Wouldn't you rather that be what America stands for, than MAJORITY RULES TAKE OR MOVE??? Where does peace on Earth START? IT starts with one person and spreads. Not to mention that when America was founded there was MANY languages, and the diversity of people and the MELTING of CULTURES is what makes America UNIQUE and beautiful. I wouldn't want to look out my window and see only people that look like me, believe like me, and talk like me. If i did I wouldn't live in America. I love this country because I can have my beliefs and LEARN about others!

@ Weak Sauce
I am really astonished at your hatred and anger. You and others on this site keep pointing the finger elsewhere when you yourself are being hypocritical. You say that because I contacted an organization to assist the little guy I am wrong? Well, I ask you what does your Bishop saying about humanity? What does he say about helping your neighbor? Does he tell you help only those that believe what you do? Does he tell you that helping a person in need comes with stipulations and that you should consider if they are a minority or the majority? I would say that the voices that need assistance ARE the minority! As a human you agree but in politics you are happy to sit on a seat where all of your beliefs are being taken care of, and who cares who gets hurt in the process as long as you get what you want and you can ride on someone else’s money to get it you are fine with it and you don’t see why anyone else isn’t.

@Weak Sauce
WOW! IT is no longer a NATIONAL HOLIDAY it is a city holiday??? Wow, so my friends were right. I have left America and landed in the land of Melaleucians! So the city can change FEDERAL holiday celebrations. I am not talking about the date IDAHO FALLS became free but the date that AMERICA became free. SO you are wrong Weak it IS a NATIONAL HOLIDAY> And I have no intention of WATCHING other Americans celebrate, I plan to celebrate with them, as I AM AN AMERICAN!

By the way, the people that are against the change may be a minority on this issue but they are not necessarity always the minority. Also anyone who pays taxes and works FUNDS the issues so don’t make your dollar worth more than anyone else’s because guess what its value is the SAME! Also their vote is the same. By the way, I don’t want to make it too political but the fact of the matter is MINORITY is a state of mind. YOUR vote counts the same as mine, and despite that IDAHO voted for REPUBLICAN president it was a DEMOCRAT That won. I voted for him too! Well, majority rules does not always fit your needs or desires but when it does you will always be willing to jump on the bandwagon. Like I said, as long as you are riding on someone else it’s fine but when it comes that you are not being represented you will be arguing too! That is why it is good to be American!

News story just a few days ago about Frank Vandersloot’s dirty politics: http://www.kidk.com/news/local/95632034.html

Hate him for the right reasons!

The 4th of July is a National Holiday except in Idaho Falls. The 4th has been bought by Farnk Vandersloot hence “Melaleuca Freedom Day”. Takes a lot of ego to re-name a national holiday. Perhaps if Vandersloot had ever served this country in uniform then he might appreciate the meaning of the day more than the coporate benifits he gets from it. Melaleuca has their pyramid, oh multi level markting business meeting here during the 4th so the whole shabang can be wrote off on taxes.
In 1967, At the age of 17 Frank Vandersloot joined the LDS religion, at the prime draft age of 18 he left the country to serve a lds mission in Holland, how many 18 year old seen thewir lat 4th of July while serving combat tours in Vietnam in 1968?. But Vandersloot pays for the fireworks so I guess he figures that gives him the right to decide issues for the community. If you have enough money you can buy all your fake patriotism your ego can handle.. Vandersloot contributed $100K to Carli Firorino (sp) in her run for a California Senate seat, maybe those two will hook up?.
Anyway I will be celibrating the 4th of July on the 4th of July, out of town camping somewhere, with a beer and the memories of friends who Stood Tall for our country and didn’t run off to Holland, got 5 defirments and ran Haliburton.

At least this time when they moved it they moved it to Saturday instead of Monday. Whoever made that decision last time this happened was an idiot.

I am a former Army officer and a Christian and I dont see any problem with having the parade and other civic activities on the Saturday. The 4th of July is the actual holiday, but celebration of that day doesnt necessarily mean that you have to have a parade. Fireworks and a parade are nice, but they are not necessary to celebrate and remember the spirit of the day. In fact, a more fitting tribute would be to have public celebration on saturday and then have those people who have religious restrictions on their activities on the Sunday Sabbath continue that celebration in the worship as their conscience dictates.

There will be a wonderful program celebrating America on July 4th at the Civic Auditorium put on by Celebration of Liberty, the group that does the amazing fireworks show in Rigby and is working to educate people about freedom and the Constitution.

Thank you to everyone who makes America great because of their goodness, their generosity, their sacrifices, their hard work, and their faith. I am grateful to live here and am excited to celebrate Independence Day starting on June 26th with the Title of Liberty march, the Children’s Parade in Rigby also on the 26th, attending the America’s Hope Children’s Choir at Rigby High School on July 1st, the Rigby Lake fireworks show on July 2nd, the Idaho Falls fireworks on July 3rd, and the Tribute to the Constitution on July 4th at the Civic. What a wonderful week of activities!

Well said, America4ever. Those are my thoughts too. He holds a celebration, invites anyone to come who wants to come, and people get upset.

Part of the issue is that that the city or the chamber have decided to hold the “public” events on Saturday. You always have immature people who throw fits when people dont give them everything they want. This is a prime example of that. They want to trample on everyone else’s rights to force their own ajenda. You voted in the people in the city counsel. If this is such a big deal, you can try to vote them out, I guess – they represent your voice based on your vote. But the truth is, nobody is preventing these people from celebrating how they want to on Sunday. They want to force their will on others and/or prevent others from holding an event on Saturday – very anti-american concepts.

Im the guest from comment 64, I’d like to think Frank read my suggestion and took it a step further to add matching funds.

Hate may be a strong word, despise is probably still accurate. However this is a good move by Frank, I applaud him for responding (first time ever?) to negative public opinion about him. Im not mormon but I thought the whole controversy was stupid but that is generous and big of Frank to do this. Now the ball is in the complainers’ court to raise money as fast as possible. Can they meet the challenge? If not they are going to look like fools, Frank made a perfect move here.

Frank said – I was recently made aware of this site in an article in this morning’s Post Register – Frank has been aware of this site for years don’t know why he wants to play like he didn’t.

So, the Mormons are offended that others want a more broad National celebration. The wealthiest Mormon in the area (although not a citizen of Idaho Falls) buys the City of Idaho Falls for the 4th of July. He offers to match funds for an alternative celebration. Right! You go you millionaire! The elected officials of the City, who are suppose to represent all citizens of Idaho Falls, are silent and defer to the Chamber of Commerce, a voluntary organization. If I was the Mayor. I would embrace the Melaleuca offer to provide fireworks on Saturday and take a proactive approach to the 4th of July Holiday weekend. I would have embraced the Melaleuca offer, scheduled more events on Sunday, as well as Monday. That would have united to community instead of dividing it. Our Elected Officials have failed. They have decided to embrace only one faction of the population.

Why should I pay for something that I can get for free on Saturday. This whole argument is a tempest in a teapot and just another way to take potshots at the LDS faith. Get over yourselves.

Wow! I had no idea there was so much hate for non-members in this community! I also find it funny that the lds are responsible for requesting that the holiday be changed so not to interfere with their other beliefs but the non-members that only wish to see the date honored as usual on the 4th of July are the ones being accused of being selfish and unpatriotic. There is a lot of finger pointing on this page but I think it is in the wrong direction. Obviously many on this page have not had the opportunity to look around when walking through town or they might have noticed that many different faiths live here, and were born and raised here. Idaho is just as much a part of their home and culture as it is to members of the church. I for one thank God every day that there is more to Idaho than the one true church, or I might just have to move. Fortunately there is much more to Idaho, those that are blind only to one church being here are the ones I feel are missing out on a lot.

Let’s stop pretending that a debate/conversation about when to hold the celebrations for Independence Day were begun by the LDS accusing others of being selfish for wanting to hold activities on the 4th. Might I remind you that the topic was started by a couple of groups who felt holding it on the 3rd wasn’t patriotic enough for them. It’s kind of difficult to understand how a group that has been on the defense most of this debate can be accused of being the accuser.

I find it odd that despite the efforts of the Chamber of Commerce, the City, and Mr. Vandersloot to explain the motives behind a celebration on Saturday instead of Sunday were economically related, not religiously related – similar to several other cities through out the country mentioned in earlier posts. Economics and marketing rules, not religion, tell us that the more people participating in and attending an event the greater the ROI for the businesses sponsoring and running booths.

I too am proud of the diversity: racial, religious and political in this area as it contributes to the city’s greatness. None of the LDS in the area are blind to the practices of other religions in the area, nor do they wish to rob them of their rights to practice religion freely. “Let them worship how, where, or what they may.” (LDS Articles of Faith 11) I would also point out that while the city, the chamber and Melaleuca have made statements about the celebration, I don’t recall the LDS Church making any statements.

So let’s put this to rest. We have now events being held on the 3rd and 4th, and it sounds like with the support of the city and chamber, as well as funding support from Melaleuca (or any other company that will step up to the plate) we will be having multi-day celebrations in years to come.

Looks like we just need to come back together so we can celebrate our Independence Day as a community.

@Kevin. I would like to add that the issue would never have come up for two groups to have been formed had it not been changed in the first place! Once again it is always easier to blame others than look inward. Had the 4th remained the 4th in the first place no one would have need to start this argument, which like I said before i strongly believe is about more than fireworks and those that become angry over the change wouldn’t feel like they have to yell at the top of their lungs over accusations of hate and persucution. So yes it was those that are the “minority” that started the argument in the first place, those that are the majority had no reason to, their needs seem always to be met without a single request to do so. Also, why would the church address the issue publicly, “I don’t recall the LDS Church making any statements.”, it is their faith that is being favored they have no need to say anything at all.

Anger is always an example of a sore spot. Look through the calender of events on cities across the nation and see “4th of July celebrations” listed throughout! “Macy’s 4th of July parade ring a bell? Oh, if we call it the 4th of July like we have on every year past then the people that wish to celebrate on the 4th might have a point so lets make sure to avoid calling it that at least for this year. Hypocrites is what I call you. And throw your hate card, I am at least confident and strong in my own beliefs to know that what you say here has no baring on who I really am. i would go through and count how many times people have been accused of hate on this topic but I don’t have all day. Go sit in a corner with your self pity, you wouldn’t have a need to call people haters if you were strong enough in your own beliefs to know it doesn’t matter what other people think. Are you really threatened by the meager minority that wishes only to see a change in date?

Ok, I have copy and pasted some of the hate, patronizing, rude comments made to those that are not lds that were simply arguing their reasons for seperating religion and national holiday celebrations. Look at it how you wish, but I dare anyone to go through and find a valid excuse for this kind of attack. Also while the posts from Nevermind that Kevin quoted are comparing religion to the easter bunny it is simply stating Neverminds own right to choose not to believe in God, but because he doesn’t he was open for criticizm and accused of hate. Not surprised. The numbers beside the quote are the numbers of the post which the comment was made. i think if you really wished to look you would find no justification for most of these rude, patronizing and condecending comments.

If you feel so strongly about the need to celebrate on the 4th, look around at other communities and find one that is celebrating on the 4th and go there. (12)

The people who claim it’s the religious majority in this area dictating the actions are doing exactly what they are preaching against – making the religious people do things on the sabbath. To me this is no different than the ideals of gay marriage or the many other myriad issues that are tied to religion. People that hate religion want those that are religious to bend to their will. Get over yourselves and put together a 4000 person group on facebook that deals with weeding out the drug problem in this area, or maybe one that focuses on not having to cut the school budgets and teacher’s aides. I don’t see that happening though as that may actually take a little work to achieve.(13)

What are you communists? We are not! We believe a man has the right to spend his molney as he sees fit, and if you don’t like it, go somewhere else! (14)

Are you that dense? Are you that anti-religion to try to make this a religious issue when it’s not?(26)

Obviously Melissa is not anti-religion, she’s just a hypercritical MORMON HATER.(47)

The problem as I see it is this has just become the new thing for people who are anti-mormon to be annoyed about in this area.(50)

I am far from afraid of the mormon haters in this area. What I have not understood is why they continue to stay here and blame everything wrong with the community on the mormons instead of just leaving to somewhere with less religious stranglehold (and better weather!!!).(50)

It is crazy to me though that a minority believes it to be fair to come to an area that is strongly religious and expect them to change everything to make it more comfortable.(54)

It is sad this dicussion has degenrated into an anti-mormon, anti-religion hate fest. I find it especially sad that there are so many bigots who have haunted this site. (75)

You always have immature people who throw fits when people dont give them everything they want. This is a prime example of that. They want to trample on everyone else’s rights to force their own ajenda. (76)

I also think this was a good move by him to shut up all of the people arguing against him. (80)

This whole argument is a tempest in a teapot and just another way to take potshots at the LDS faith. Get over yourselves.(84)

I noticed today that Frank Vandersloot’s offer of matching funds for a Sunday celebration has only been met by fundraising on that side of a little over $900. That tells me they like to complain and whine rather than do something about it. Perhaps it’s easier to boob when you’re not the one paying the bills. (85)

And least we forget it is THEY who settled this valley. You may disagree with them, it’s your right to do so. However, without them there wouldn’t BE an Idaho Falls, or Salt Lake. They deserve some respect for the efforts they have put in to make this valley what it is. Green living is such a BIG issue now a days… Mormons have lived here for the past 200 years and done a pretty good job of it. If you don’t believe me visit New York or somewhere and see what they have done to their neck of the woods. (87)

That is the one thing I could never understand. If you don’t like Mormons, then why come where they congregate? (88)

I just do not understand the need for some people to come here where the Mormons congregate, then complain about how many Mormons there are. That make no sense to me at all (90)

Might I remind you that the topic was started by a couple of groups who felt holding it on the 3rd wasn’t patriotic enough for them. It’s kind of difficult to understand how a group that has been on the defense most of this debate can be accused of being the accuser. (94)

Citizen’s hatred of Mormons is well evident in his posts.(98)

Ok Moron, let’s do this.(100)

then YOU have the problem here jerk. You have pointed to many imaginary arguments here and I for one am tired of your hate filled diatribes. (100)
You hate Mormons. Ok, I understnd that. So knock off the wounded pride garbage.(100)

And finally, Citizen. You still refuse to tell us why you live among the Mormons when you hate them so. (101)

Those of you who feel that hating Mormons is your way to put forward your argument simply show your pathetic natures. There is no reason to follow this thread any longer.(106)

@Kevin.
Call it what you want but I have not attacked the lds faith in any way. Simply arguing against the fact that a majority can now change holidays. Had that majority been of the faith that worshiped the easter bunny i would hold the exact same stand. I have not in any way attacked any individuals beliefs, just those behaviors that they keep pointing at in others and calling hate that they themselves are guilty of. I feel that throughout you have been very respectful of people Kevin and have maintained dignity while arguing your case, but I also feel that you are so strong in your own beliefs you find it difficult to see anything in others beliefs. Just because someone doesn’t happen to believe the same as you does not justify saying that they are attacking your faith’s beliefs. That I am afraid is where you begin to “ride a dead horse”

If anyone else didn’t just hear, this is the mormon’s city, they are the ones that own businesses and pay taxes and have huge houses and pay for every little person in this town to see a fireworks show, and only mormon owned radio stations play patriotic music on the 4th of July and only mormons find that sunday is a holy day and only mormons believe in God and only mormons contribute to the economy around Idaho Falls, then I think they are blind and deaf. I am not going to pretend to know about faiths that I have never been affiliated with so I cannot say that the Catholic religon or Baptist or Protestants believe, I have a strong feeling that neither can Kevin, but I can say that the majority religion in USA is still Catholic and a large portion of Idaho Falls are Catholic and I personally know that I see Catholic’s shopping and playing in the park and going to restaraunts in Idaho Falls on Sundays and as has been pointed out before the majority of America will be celebrating on Sunday so if the majority are catholic and are celebrating on Sunday it seems they can keep sunday sacred and celebrate freedom on the same day. As to the Baptists the east coast and southern united States are a large population of Baptists. Again, I know nothing of what they believe but i do know that in the east and south from personal experience, sundays do not shut down cities and many of those that are baptist have no problem keeping sunday sacred and again going out and celebrating with family and friends and spending money on sunday. I would like you to stick to only what you know of. There is so much more to idaho falls than what some wish to see and believe, to say that only those that don’t spend money or celebrate on sunday contribute to the city or those that see no problem with celebrating and spending money must not honor God is both closeminded and the exact same thing you have accused others of on this site Kevin, hate. I assure you it is far more than just the mormons that come to this city and support the community on the 4th of July by buying tickets and hotel rooms. As has all of the people that have a desire to celebrate on the 4th of July not the 3rd, hence the reason they feel they have every right to complain, since they have on years past and planned to do this year as well, contributed by spending money on the 4th of July celebration. It is not only mormon owned sponsors that make up the parade either Kevin, although I am sure you are blind to those that aren’t. Who is really guilty of being close minded and selfish? Those that would spend money and contribute to the local economy and businesses no matter what day of the week it lands on, or those that refuse if it becomes inconvenient for them? I too am finished arguing, as it is very apparant that the only argument that is good enough is that this is a mormon town, take it or leave. I for one have no problem with what anyone believes unless it is being held above others. As for the other 364 days of the year like you said only once every 6 years, let them eat cake.

Wow… where in my statement did I say that only LDS paid for everything during these celebrations? You accused of us of being smug in our responsed because we are the “majority who enjoys all of the benefits of the city without having to “match” anything.”

I was questioning your assumption when the fact of the matter is any and all money going towards the fireworks comes from the public, which happens to LDS in majority as you and others keep pointing out, so they aren’t getting something for nothing here. I didn’t say everything good and well comes from the labors of LDS people, nor did I say all the big homes and properties and businesses are owned by LDS people. I didn’t say that only one station plays patriotic music, cause in fact every country station in town plays more patriotic music year round than KLCE plays on Independence Day – However, it still remains the only station synchronizing it’s music to the fireworks.

As for understanding other beliefs, you don’t know what my life experiences are or what I do or don’t know about other religions. – And, no they were not taught to me by LDS leaders. – Funny, how you used the debate that the majority of Catholic Americans are having celebrations on Sunday, when arguing against a majority or Mormons not wanting to. I found that rather amusing. Despite what some or many Christians decide to do on their Sabbath, all have been asked to keep it Holy. Did you know that in Germany, the tradition of keeping businesses closed on Sunday is very alive and well in many Catholic and Protestant communities?

I do not harbor hate or ill feelings toward you or others, and am bewildered at how so many can imply that the majority of people in the community don’t choose to participate in a Sunday event in any way rob you or anyone esle of your ability to still enjoy our Independence Day.

Please, stop twisting the words of every argument made in response to your statements. Repeat my comments without spinning them. Have respect for the community which you are very much a part of here. You are always welcome here. (And, no, that is not me taking authority to permit you to do so, rather a statement of fact.) You can live anywhere you want.

Did you know we were in America and not Germany? Just wondering since you seem to bring up Germany when we are talking about America.
“Did you know that in Germany, the tradition of keeping businesses closed on Sunday is very alive and well in many Catholic and Protestant communities?”

I completely understood your argument that all the other faiths in this country that dominate cities aren’t moving their celebrations. And guess what… They have that right to do so. Sure, KLCE is paid by the owner of KLCE and the rest of Riverbend Communications to put on their syncronized music, but how is that relevant. The people who put on the fireworks are paid, the president and events coordinator of the chamber are paid, many city officials involved are paid. Your point???

My point was simply that the ‘Mormons’ aren’t getting off easy here and getting a free lunch because they don’t have to ‘match funds’ for Independence Day. Every tax paying citizen in the community, every person reserving a hotel, every business sponsoring and participating in the event and every person that purchases food, shirts, or souveniers or pays to play games at the Green Belt (Mormon, athiest, Catholic, Jewish, Jehova Witness, agnostic, Budist, or whatever else they may be) are all paying for this event.

Your beef seems to be that the majority in this area are LDS, and they are forcing their hand into your life with their decisions about the 4th of July. This argument is simply not true and the fact that it is just you and me here is proof that everyone else in this community is satisfied with the solution provided by the City openning up to and the Chamber supporting an event, LARGE or SMALL on Sunday the 4th. Oh, yes… and Vandersloot decided to hand out more of his money to help support this as well. He shouldn’t have to more than match funds, heck, he didn’t even have to do that. It was a generous offering.

I’m exausted with this discussion. I don’t even know who I’m being attacked by. Your arguments seem to simply be to disrupt and poke at a majority you’re frustrated with. You’ve been accused of a lot of things regarding being a hater or anti-Mormon, and while I don’t know you (at all because you still hide behind the anonymity of this blog) I can’t speak either way to that. I do wonder, however, what it says of someone who is still arguing against a group of people even after that group decided to contribute in part to a 4th of July party.

Changing topic slightly did anyone else notice the errors in Vandersloots Propaganda page in last Sunday’s Post Register? He listed all the times the 4th has fallen on a Sunday and listed the last as being 1999. I found that interesting since the 4th was also on a Sunday in 2004 and that time the fireworks were moved to the 5th and there was a big local controversy. I guess Mr Vandersloot wants to pretend this is the first time this issue has come up which is far from the truth.

Yes there will be a celebration on the 4th this year but that doesn’t mean that anything has changed as far as where all of the cities support and budget goes to. It is people like you that are happy about the group having a celebration on Sunday so you can call the discussion closed but as you can see it isn’t closed. Do you know how hard it has been for that group to get anything done? The greenbelt will not be available because the garbage from the 3rd celebration will not be cleaned up for at least 24hrs. and certain parks would be available but noone can sit or park in them, oh and the paperwork would have been turned in on the day that they notified them of the paperwork. So the only venue left as an option is surprise…..Melaleuca Field! Oh and their will be a baseball game going on that evening, hope no one minds, hey they could all buy tickets and watch the game too! And gathering money for a display that now is being compared to the larger one has only gained the group more criticizm and pointing at because we just aren’t as rich as the people that “own huge houses and pay huge property taxes” But yes you are right Kevin it is all fair and even in the great city of Idaho Falls where no one is favored and no one gets special treatment. So your great leader Frank threw some money at the group, does that make him a hero, it does to the city government because it did what they hoped it would do , shut them up! They are now too busy diving through red tape and obstacle courses to have their “meager display” And the happy people that love their country so much can continue to change a national holiday so they can have their cake and eat it too.

I find it amazing to say the least that at every turn you accuse people of attacking your faith. Where has anyone actually attacked your faith? What have they said. On the other hand you flippantly accuse people of attacking others beliefs but the ones that happen to find the 4th of July to be a sacred holiday are being attacked and told that “what day does it matter as long as we are together” Well we happen to believe a day can be holy as well, but once again the lds in this community’s holy day is holier than any other. Can’t our argument be that if a day is just a day than Sunday is just a day as well, so you could easily move your holy day to a Tuesday so that the economy and others in town can keep their holiday holy? Or for that matter change it every week not just once every six years, how about we argue that God doesn’t care what day of the week you choose to rest and honor him so Tuesday is better for the community since most have Sat and Sun off and opening more businesses and allowing people to spend money on Sunday would be a huge boost in our economy.
Oh wait only your arguments are valid right Kevin? Since anyone who just happens to feel that when they see corruption and favortism for the wrong reasons and speaks up must be out to get your faith and everything you believe in. Us petty people that happen to believe in keeping the 4th of July sacred and believe a day can be holy are just arguing because we hate a certain group. But you that argues that your day is more important than ours are not attacking anyones belief because it is so far beneath you to even consider that this holiday could be as sacred to some as your Sunday is to you.
Keep throwing your hate cards, I am made of steel when it comes to false accusations. I also would like to believe that when there is an injustice, even if it won’t make a difference someone should speak up, even if that means being accused of hate, because it is not I but those that make decisions that favor one group that are guilty of hate. Majority does not always make things right!

You know what, Anonymous, I can in good conscience live my life without answering to any of your allegations, word twists, and hate card pulling against me. I don’t accuse you of hating, nor feel it right for anyone else to do so. That never wins the argument. You’re obviously frustrated and I feel your approach to people is less than polite, but I don’t call that hate, just poor manners.

My patriotism runs deep in this country and, while I am not always right and admit that often, I will not have it questioned by a nameless and faceless accuser. Independence Day shouldn’t be about contesting whose patriotism is greater than other. And holding celebrations on a Saturday was never about taking away from the significance of Independence Day or belittling others, rather about getting the most people possible together to celebrate the country we share and the commonalities we have despite our differences. You don’t have to agree or completely understand what someone is saying in this country in order to unite with them in national celebrations.

celebrating on Saturday doesn’t take away the significance to you, but again you ignore what it might take away from others. Typical. celebrating on suday doesn’t take away the significance either and to many faiths celebrating both God and their country on the same day makes it even more significant to have it on Sunday. But again, you ignore that because as you said you don’t have to answer any questions that might actually be difficult to answer without sounding as if you think your beliefs are better than others. I quote you when I address you, i think yo are so worked up because you don’t even know what you are arguing about. after all you have everything you want don’t you, you get a huge celebration on saturday and you don’t have to give a thought to anyone else on sunday but yourself and everyone else who thinks like you. i hope you do have a good 4th. uniting means sometimes people have to make sacrafices in order to come together and celebrate what makes our country unique and diverse. if that meant that the parade was held on saturday morning and all other festivities were held in the evening on sunday it wouldn’t change anything, both sides would be making a concession but unfortunately for the ‘majority’ even a compromise cannot be formed. if you consider what happened this year a compromise you are a joke. no one had to give anything exept those that find this holiday sacred they are the only ones that have truly honored their country because not only did they put money up for their own display (no matter how little they had to give) instead of taking a free ride, they will be contributing to the economy on the 4th as well so i think you need to come down a few pegs off your high horse. you can neither speak for me or the entire community or the entire nation on what is fair or not fair, simply because you have a parade and fireworks display and paste a sign that has melaleuca freedom celebration on it does not mean you have honored your country or the people that have died for it. or those that are still serving their country so you can go to a parade and not miss it on sunday. it takes more than all of that and if you ask me the twin falls group that were actually successful in their campaign to keep the holiday sacred and the group that have at least decided to have a party despite opposition are the truly patriotic and respectful groups in this whole argument. once again it is hilarious that those that are guilty of changing the celebration in the first place act as if the group that is trying to honlor the real date are the ones oppressing them. funny how your view point changes depending on which group you view it from. still i see no compromise on the part of the majority they want it all or nothing. and they call us selfish.

@nowhiners- take your whine somewhere else, if you are content with the way things are why open your mouth, you obviously are angry at those that wish to see a change. feeling threatened they might succeed? Or just dribbling garbage?

Succeed away. I hope they do succeed, but I know they won’t? Care to know why? Because what they are is all bark and no bite. Put up, or shut up. $900? Really? Go buy some black-cats, light them off and call it a day. OR – you could join in the celebration on Saturday. But wait! No no! Don’t do that! You might get some sort of religious cooties on you!

Like I said – if we were in Houston Texas, what religion would you all be hacking on at that point?

Fail.

how much money to you give the the 3rd celebration whiner? oh nothing, you might buy a ten dollar t-shirt that says i support fake patriotism. those that keep complaining about the economy and how people are out of jobs are pointing the finger at some very patriotic people who happen to give what they can in a 7day notice when most have to live paycheck to paycheck in this economy just to survive. you make me think you must have a silver spoon lodged somewhere for you to laugh at 1600 dollars actually. not bad for 7 days and when there are many that aren’t just for a 3rd celebration but absolutely against a 4th one. Say what you will but this argument wouldn’t exisist if you didn’t have those that opposed a celebration on sunda.

eat your own words, if sunday is sacred to you how can the 4th not be sacred to others. but again you must be close with kevin, if it is a battle of which is more sacred the 4th of sunday the sunday wins in this town. so those that find the 4th sacred are the ones forcing our beliefs on others? also go away if this argument is silly to you, if it is so silly why did you one-seek it out to read it and 2 choose to join. find something that isn’t silly to you to argue about and have a good 3rd of july.

your faith happens to be tied to which day you worship and also which day of the week you choose to rest and honor God by not spending money. Should I call that laughable. You yourself are doing a pretty good job of showing just what you choose to believe and those that don’t must be far beneath you and you must just hate that they have the freedom to express their opinions. pity you, you live in the wrong nation.

I just checked – no silver spoon here. I do however donate regularly to the less fortunate. That money does not come from anywhere other than the sweat of my brow. Is that acceptable? Is my opinion better now that you know I’m not rich?

I love my country.
I love my family.
I love my religion.

I can celebrate any of those on any given day without discontent being projected on others. You should try it.

And just so we are clear, “I” am not better than you. “You” are not beneath me. “I” believe people should be able to express their beliefs. “I” do not however understand why they think their beliefs should tred upon mine.

“I” am choosing to celebrate on the 3rd, with a few others.
“You” can choose to celebrate on the 4th, with a few others.

Why should I feel bad for you when you have the same choices that I do? I don’t. Yet you seem to be upset that things cannot and will not, be going your way. Travel to a city that is holding their celebration on the 4th instead of the 3rd – there, “you” win.

“You” are not beneath me. “I” believe people should be able to express their beliefs. “I” do not however understand why they think their beliefs should tred upon mine

Could it be that we are arguing the same exact thing? I too do not wish anyones beliefs to tred upon me, however I did not request a change of date, or a change to the traditional celebration or to the date that has been chosen long before i was ever born for our nation as a whole country to come together. the date was chosen as the 4th of july, had it been the 3rd i would not argue that, had it been the first monday of every july i would not argue that. yet it is me that you are claiming is asking others to change??? wow, i didn’t change the date i simply wish it to be honored as every year, on the 4th.
“Why should I feel bad for you when you have the same choices that I do?”
I would like to remind you that simply gathering the meager 1600 that the group did was a very difficult thing to achieve and not only was a difficult articles like the other one on this page are now comparing it to the larger one, which even with all of your majority pitching in would be hard to compare to the show done by melaleuca. also the city caters to the 3rd of july celebration and sends out many tax paid services to support this show, the group that only wishes to celebrate with the entire nation must find their own support. not to mention that they are still jumping through hoops and red tape. so my choice by one of the so generous majority members reverts back to go to some other community to celebrate if you don’t like it. Well, i think it aught to be the ones looking to have the date changed that should be going elsewhere if they don’t like it, the ones that only wish to keep the date haven’t asked of anything.
“I do however donate regularly to the less fortunate. That money does not come from anywhere other than the sweat of my brow”
My brow sweats too buddy and I too donate to those less fortunate, but I also don’t take the time to mock or make fun of those less fortunate either…..
“I hope they do succeed, but I know they won’t? Care to know why? Because what they are is all bark and no bite. Put up, or shut up. $900? Really? Go buy some black-cats, light them off and call it a day. OR – you could join in the celebration on Saturday. But wait! No no! Don’t do that! You might get some sort of religious cooties on you!”
I also know better than to assume that those that want to celebrate on sunday are afraid of “religious cooties” I know milliions of people will be celebrating on sunday throughout this nation and most worship the very same God that you do and have their own faiths that they are very much devoted to and love, so who is hating who again?

and finally……
I love my country.
I love my family.
I love my religion.
What makes you believe that those that oppose the date change are not just as much loyal and loving to their country their family and their religion. Only someone that assumes they are the only ones capable of loving and honoring God because they don’t want to celebrate on sunday have accused others of being anti-religious, but just because we don’t feel anouncing our denomination doesn’t mean we don’t love our religion or our family.

wow! once again mormons did this and mormons did that and no one else was here before them and no one after them has contributed anything to this community so it is still only theirs. I wish for you to show me how it is that the mormons ‘founded’ this area when the shoshone bannock and other indian tribes were here long before idaho exisisted and also that traders and trappers were drawn to the area later farmers. So how is it that we all are supposed to bow down and feel this area is not just as much a part of our culture and religion? You’ll have to provide some proof for me that it was mormons that ‘founded’ the communities in idaho. I find many faiths have been here forever so how can you attribute all that idaho has to offer to one group. Oh, cause that’s all you see.
Well here are the things I see that are to me condecending and rude. We agree that we do not believe in the same things yet you accuse me of hatred and belittling when this is how you are towards those that happen to love this country and find pride in showing it with the rest of the nation on a day that they find sacred. yet you treat us with disdain and mock our patriotism because we ask to keep our holiday sacred. again i don’t mind you quoting me, it is not those that wish to keep the holiday on the 4th that are seeking to change anyones way of life, but those that find it inconvenient to compromise with their community and must have all or nothing that are being selfish and oppressing others with their own beliefs of how they feel people should use their sundays.

“They[mormons] did, and founded the communities in this area.”

“Travel to a city that is holding their celebration on the 4th instead of the 3rd – there, “you” win.”

“But wait! No no! Don’t do that! You might get some sort of religious cooties on you!”

“Like I said – if we were in Houston Texas, what religion would you all be hacking on at that point?”

“The supposition that YOUR patriotism is tied to which day you celebrate Independence Day is laughable. Completely laughable.”

“Because what they are is all bark and no bite. Put up, or shut up. $900? Really? Go buy some black-cats, light them off and call it a day. OR – you could join in the celebration on Saturday.”

“What sad little lives you must have…”

“All of you complaining about the celebration not being on Sunday have lost out. Instead of putting your energy towards something positive you’ve burned it up being ticked off, and at what?”

“Even suggesting that someone has less patriotism because they were willing to celebrate a national holiday on a different day is asinine.”

Once again, you hold sunday sacred but because others hold the 4th sacred we are the asinine ones. who is asking who to change what?

wow. just read another hate mail of how whiner feels about the people that have strong patriotic beliefs that make them feel the 4th of july is sacred. he spreads his distaste of us petty minorities everywhere doesn’t he…..

“What amazes me is all of the whiners that complain about the FREE show that Frankie puts on. If you don’t like when he’s having his show, go to another one. Why do people not like that? Because they know Frankies show will be awesome and the others will be a gamble. It’s amazing what people complain about – even when it’s FREE.”

“Put on your own show you bunch of sponges.”

who cares

Let me begin by remarking on the amount of hate generated (on both sides) by such a frivolous issue. Let me also say that I respect both sides of the issue. This country began, more than 400 years ago, with the immigration of disgruntled citizens of England who were GENERALLY looking for one of two things: freedom from the oppressive Church of England OR the possibilities of profit from the vast lands of the New World. In other words, religion and money. Almost 200 years later, our Founding Fathers decided that a break from English rule was in the best interest of their rights and declared independence from England–bringing about the birth of this nation. Strikingly, as I’ve read through the many arguments in this thread these same three topics surfaced: religion, money, and rights.

Let me address rights first. Often times rights are confused with privileges. Rights are guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution along with the various state constitutions and enacted laws. Privileges are are things we enjoy as Americans but are not guaranteed by any enacted law. For example, I have the right to celebrate the independence of this great country any day I like, and I have the privilege of participating in the Freedom Celebration on the day that it is scheduled (and no, Boise Anon, that does not diminish the fact that I am a REAL American). No rights are violated with a change in the date of the celebration which is why it is unfathomable that someone would contact the ACLU (Melissa Tuttle). As for any celebrations, parades, etc funded by the municipality, well, these are issues for election time. If you don’t like the way they function, elect someone else. Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your view, the majority usually rules, that is just how things are set up in this country. With that, I do have to echo the questions of why you are here if you are so adamantly opposed to the majority rule in this area. I am not asking you to leave, I just don’t understand the mentality of staying someplace where you feel so uncomfortable or so quick to anger.

Money and religion ARE certainly co-factors in the decision. I do believe the Chamber’s explanation to be plausible and that they did consider money to be a major factor in scheduling events on the 3rd. It is common knowledge that this area has a significant LDS population–given what I’ve read so far in this thread, that is not in dispute. Even if only a portion of this population joined with other faiths, I would have to imagine, to skip festivities on Sunday the 4th, what economic impact do you think that would have on the businesses depending on the holiday revenue? In addressing the “buying” of the holiday, I would suppose in some respects you are right–however, isn’t any holiday a commercial event? Do we really celebrate the REAL reasons for Halloween? How about Thanksgiving? Christmas? For many, these are simply excuses for spending money. Tell me, do you really sit on the greenbelt while the fireworks are blaring and contemplate the founding fathers and what they went through to bring this nation into being?

Now, let’s all grow up and have a civil discussion about the issue rather than throwing hate jibes at each other. Remember what we are celebrating. We are celebrating the privilege to live in this great free country established to guarantee its citizens rights that people from other nations envy. People from some countries would read this discussion and nod their heads in disgust saying, “they don’t know what they’ve got, we wish we had even a fraction of those rights and privileges.” Celebrate the fact that both sides won on this issue and there will be a public celebration on both the 3rd and the 4th. More importantly, have respect for each other, that is what being an American is all about.

@RB I agree that we should all agree to disagree. The fact of the matter is that those that have gotten their way are going to consider this a victory and deny that any one else could possible have the right to feel like their is an injustice. Despite the fact that there are literally thousands that do feel there is an injustice hence this topic discussion and facebook pages! It seems that instead of acknowledging the right of those people to feel like this is more about the fact that the majority continues to act as if this could not possibly be an issue because they are having a huge fireworks display and parade so that should shut everyone up, is astonishing. As to your reply, I respect that you have done your homework, I think that it is admirable to use facts and not anger in your argument. However, again you are listing a huge reason why it shouldn’t matter to people when they celebrate while acknowledging that it does matter to some to not celebrate on Sunday. You forget to mention that in this community and in Twin Falls there are in fact many people that feel like their rights are being stepped on. All of the money and support of the city goes to one groups choices to do what they wish. I would also like to point out that I just visited the mormon capital of america and was overjoyed to see that restaraunts, theaters, zoos, parks etc were filled to overflowing with people on Sunday. Families, men, women, children, people from other countries, gays, lesbians, native americans etc. were all mingling with one another in these places, smiling, saying kind words to one another and families having a much needed day to love one another and just celebrate being together. None of which I would say were dishonoring God by loving one another and coming together on a Sunday! Like it or not their are people that would gladly celebrate with money and fireworks on Sunday, it is because the city gov. has chosen for so long to cater to one group’s beliefs for so long that they have missed out that there is a large portion of God loving and fearing individuals that see nothing wrong with celebrating on Sunday, but those that don’t recognize this dismiss those as anti-religious and anti-mormon. I think it is the insecurity of their own beliefs that lead them to believe there could actually be people that will make it to Heaven that have had a really good time every Sunday of the year with their church, family and friends, shopping, going to the zoo, and watching fireworks with any faith, any race, and any class. So back to my point, RB while you have done your history of the nation you have missed the history of your community where Sunday has been a hot topic when it comes to the 4th for many years. While pioneer day is celebrated regardless of what day it lands on. Funny huh?
Also those people that feel like celebrating on Sunday have contributed just as much to the 4th as those that don’t want it to be on Sunday. Also I think it is unfortunate because while vacations and football are sometimes an excuse to not go to church, the country’s birth cannot be a valid one.

Dear Angry People,

Please, by all means, don’t come to the fireworks display. That’ll leave more space for me and my family to sit- less crowds- less traffic. I’ll be celebrating at the fireworks festival as well as at a bbq at my house on Sunday. GET OVER IT. Your whining is going to get you nowhere- except alone at your house while everyone else is out celebrating and having a great time. Feel free to donate hundreds of thousands of dollars- then you can decide what you want to do. Obviously several businesses in Idaho Falls are closed EVERY Sunday. It is much smarter to have the activites on Saturday when everything is open. Take your complaining and negativity somewhere else.

@those that have gotten your way. Boo-hoo you are so picked on and oppressed, eveyone hates you, nobody loves you and only your opinion is the right one. Everyone else hates God and religion and their country. The millions of people in America that celebrate assuming the rest of the nation is also, are all Godless people in communities that are losing oh so much money because no one comes out on Sunday, they all stay in their homes. The poor economy it will be devistated if it had to accept money from Godless people that happen to have went to church and missed the parade but still wish to go to the rest of the festivities with their family. And because you people don’t like me I will be all alone by myself on the fourth of July sulking and sad that you all are in your homes and missing out on a real celebration. Poor me and poor you. You are so misrepresented by every favortism you recieve in your city. Boo-hoo stop picking on us you anti-religious anti-mormon americans. Boo-hoo

if the entire nation were to celebrate on the first Monday of July I can honestly and truly say I think it would be better for everyone involved so arguments such as these would not exist. The point however is that it isn’t that way. Our country is one that is really so fortunate as you pointed out earlier to have so much in the way of freedom and much of the beauty of America is the diversity. I find that there is just as much diversity in Idaho Falls, so many were here before the lds and so many have come after, that does not discredit anything lds have contributed but the fact of the matter is often the diverse society in idaho feels that lds take full credit for the community that they live in, and ignore all significant influence of all other cultures. Have you not noticed the large hispanic population in Idaho Falls, have you missed the catholic, methodist, lutherans, jewish, etc. people of our community that devote time volunteering, doing blood drives, donating to the less fortunate, etc. but again anytime any stake a claim that this community belongs to them someone like America4ever or Nowhiners comes along and claims this is only an lds community. By the way, recently it has been suggested that the majority is only held by about 60%, is 40% of the population so easily overlooked and ignored??? It seems this is where justifiably 40% of the population becomes so frustrated with topics such as these! Instead the majority like to imply that the majority held is somewhere like 99-1. Well, if that were the case I don’t think we would be having such a large debate over a single day. A single day in which our very diverse country in which we have everything from strong southern influence, eastern influence etc. but on this day we are all together as Americans. So yes what day does matter, because if we chose to celebrate the date that the city was founded it would only be about only this community but it is about the entire nation coming together. And by the way to answer your earlier question, yes I really do think about all of our members that have given their lives, and the fact that literally millions of others are doing the same while I celebrate the 4th of july with other americans. It is the gathering of so many diverse people that makes it special. I feel sorry for you if all you see is fireworks. It is the people surrounding you and all celebrating together as a country that makes a difference. Unfortunately for so many that actually do find this important people like you and the others on this site, find our cause silly and frivoulous, yet your day of worship is sacred, while no others can find the date of the fourth sacred. Hypocrite, hypocrite. Well, I think more would join the argument but fear of being called mormon hater, when in fact they aren’t keep them from arguing. i will not let it stop me. As you said a large portion of the population of idaho falls are lds, that means i have neighbors, friends, co-workers, family, etc. that happen to be lds all of which I care for, but because I disagree with choices made by such faith and the city that favors them that must mean I hate lds and all of their faith. I consider those that jump to accuse to be so close minded and cruel. there is nothing worse than being accused of hate, when all I ask is that those that believe so strong on a day, Sunday, which is just a day as well, would understand how some others could care about a day also. Once again, if you want to argue about why houston etc. changes the day, move to houston. How do you know there isn’t tension and arguing about it there as well? have you spoken to the citizens in those communities?

oh guess what there are lds in the east and the south, while not the majority they seem to blend in nicely with the rest of the population and do not seek out favortism but rather join the community in celebrations that actually are designed to include and celebrate them as well, such as the 4th of july.

RB, first, do not assume you know what i have or haven’t done to take an “active” approach to my position, i simply am discussing my opinion on a site where i read a lot of hate in one direction while the other side was being accused of hate, but because i discuss here doesn’t mean i have done nothing elsewhere.
second- i never accused you of hating anyone, on the other hand i addressed how very cruel and closeminde those that point the finger can be. i also never claimed that you had a population of friends that were all the same race, or class. i think it would be very difficult for anyone not to have a diverse group of friends in america, unless they were trying their hardest not to.
finally- whatever point you think i made for you i am very confused. on this site many many many people have claimed that sunday is in fact sacred to them and wish not to celebrate on that day, i must say i respect that and also have more respect and admiration for those that will stand up for their faith, than deny this is a religious issue and say it is an economic one. for most that say it is an economic one also happen to be the ones that share a faith that keeps them from participating on sunday, and it is much more admirable to say that you support your faith than your money. Now you believe as do they that sunday is a sacred day, to many others it is just a day, one that they go to church but no different than any other day that they love God, they just congregate with like minded individuals and talk about that love on that day, (it could be thursday for all they care) but it is just a day like any other. Yet to some sunday is more, it is a day that is sacred and must be honored as such. yet you do not understand how some can view the 4th of july as a sacred date. I conceded that yes if the nation decided as a whole to come together on the first monday of july that would be good for everyone. however, i said the point of the holiday for most is that it is a national holiday in which the entire nation should be honoring each other and those before that gave so much for them. If every city chose a different date on the calender from jan. to dec. it would not mean the same thing. yes our nation has grown, probably much larger than our founding fathers could have imagined, and things have changed considerably from those things that they believed in and they couldn’t possibly have imagined just how diverse america would become, but they dreamed about a nation of freedom, where people could bring their tired, and their poor, and they celebrated not seperately but together when they celebrated their independence and I believe whole heartedly that despite how large our nation is now, they would still wish this to be true. So if the entire nation voted that monday was better or that the 1st of decemeber in the freezing cold was better, i would argue that on this one day out of 365 the entire nation, houston, chicago and the huge city of idaho falls, come together and celebrate together, not seperate. save your communitiy celebrations for the indiv. day your state became a part of the great country of america but honor your country and the rest of the americans throughout together on the same day! if that was your point i guess i did prove it for you.

once again, assuming that someone that debates about one topic just ignores another is a little close minded isn’t it. Aren’t you spending time arguing that we shouldn’t be arguing, you could be devoting that time to more important discussions on cleaning the Gulf or the economy, yet you were drawn to this frivoulous conversation to tell people what they should really care about.

“once again, assuming that someone that debates about one topic just ignores another is a little close minded isn’t it. Aren’t you spending time arguing that we shouldn’t be arguing, you could be devoting that time to more important discussions on cleaning the Gulf or the economy, yet you were drawn to this frivoulous conversation to tell people what they should really care about.”

–Point Taken.

I just have to add that ‘forcing’ people to come together on a certain date and time. well, holidays aren’t intended to ‘force’ anyone to do anything but they do happen to be tied to dates!
Every holiday in existence is tied to a date.
Otherwise wouldn’t we just ignore holidays all together and just say, when you feel like honoring the day of Jesus’ birth do so, when you feel like honoring your country do so’ when you feel like honoring the resurection of christ do so…..so on and so forth for every holiday ever made by man. And yes they are made by man, as is Sunday-Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday etc.
Holidays are set for a specific date, not so that people will only honor their country one day of the year or that they will only think of those that have died for them one day out of the year (memorial day and 4th) but so that everyone will come together to honor these holidays. They are specifically designed so that people agree on a day that they all celebrate these things together, I am sure people celebrate these concepts individually as families on the other days of the year, but the holiday is set for people outside of your normal circle to celebrate together, hence why people smile and wish you a happy 4th, as I have never been told happy independence day, and people all around wish you merry christmas etc. because it is about more than just your own thoughts and family it is about more than yourself…

Whiner, you are whining again. Well, go and start a facebook page, i will join it, except i get Monday off too. And guess what the gov. gets a three day holiday for almost every holiday in exisitence. Let’s start makinjg them work you are right for once, although your whining is still really annoying.

“To be offended is a choice we make; it is not a condition inflicted or imposed upon us by someone or something else.”

Choose not to be offended by the celebration being held on the 3rd. I’m still surprised people are upset about a CELEBRATION.

Victory- I assume, which I know can get me in trouble, but I am also hoping you are being sarcastic. While it is wrong for the city government to show favortism to any group regardless if it is for race, class or religion, the religion itself is not at fault, but rather those that took an oath to represent their city and be as objective as possible and seperate their own faith from their decisions that effect the entire city.
For anyone to deny that the city gov. is not bias towards a certain group is ridiculous and they know it, the city not only refuses to acknowlede the groups that formed because they felt offended by the fact that the city, not Frank, not the chamber, but the city has chosen to do nothing to honor the 4th of July but rather puts all of its support towards those that believe the same as they do. Most of the city gov. is of the same religion as the majority of the city, that’s fine, but they need to know that they are responsible for making decisions that are for all of the city. They should be bringing the divided city together at all opportunities and the 4th is one of them. So to those that think we are out to get frank and private business you are wrong, while yes I believe they should have something on the 4th rather than the 3rd it is in fact their choice to do so and their choice to favor whatever group they wish. But the city is responsible for showing it’s loyalty to all of the citizens in the city, not just a group of 60%.
Now back to Victory, again I hope you are being sarcastic, because it is wrong that any group “run” a city, but it is wrong for you to call any faith, “one crazy religion” and if you are being serious it is you that gives all of us that only wish to be recognized as patriotic citizens that should have a say too, a very bad name. So if you are serious then I say take another approach and keep the name calling to yourself. If you are being sarcastic, grow up and realize that no one is saying that about any religion.

first of all the argument of seperation of church and state here is a completely bogus issue. The founders didn’t want a state supported religion, but encouraged it’s citezens to speak their mind. When those people are religous then thats what will be spoken and the same for non religous. There is no church dictating anything here.

Who cares about a date!! Are you a less grateful person because of the day you choose to celebrate something? Come on, that is very small minded. If you understand how our nation was supposed to work, then you know it was supposed to be ran locally and the local voice was to be heard, NOT the local church but its citizens and if all of those citizens happen to believe that Sunday is a holy day then so be it. Move somewhere else!!!!

Anonymous, you sound like an academic who is trying to prove they know something. You are beating a dead horse. Get over it!! No ones rights have been violated.

Mellisa,
you can pretty much pick anyday you want to celebrate our independence, You can pretty much pick any of the dates that were vital to our nations freedom and celebrate it then.

Dates are so insignificant when it comes to when you celebrate things like this, it is more about remembering and respecting and that has nothing to do with what day tyou choose to celebrate it on!!!

If you want to debate, you should try to do so with respect and intelligence. You even have a username that is the opposite of your actions. “what a dumb reason to have a conversation” yet you join the conversation, not only that you seek it out to read it. Funny, lots of people that don’t have a point revert back to the, “this is dumb” tactic. Maybe it’s not the topic but the people that don’t have anything intelligent to add that are “dumb”
I won’t go back over things I have said over and over again. So I will just leave it to those capable of addressing all of what someone has said instead of pieces they barely comprehend to understand why a date is important to some, as sunday is to others.
I want to add that while yes I believe a country is a country and to honor it once a year is not too much to ask, but I have come to understand by people much kinder and more intelligent that some have very strong faith that Sunday is in fact holy, their reasoning to me is not completely understandable for someone who sees nothing wrong with celebrating on Sunday but i concede that to those that wish to keep Sunday sacred they should not have to miss out on anything because they have strong faith, neither does that mean that they don’t love and honor their country. (There people can change, miraculous isn’t it)
However, the city is still a city and that means they should be doing at least something to honor the nation they are a part of and the people that belong to it. Taking a free ride off of Frank and the Chamber and denying any assistance to those that wish to celebrate on Sunday is still wrong and I will stand by that 100%
To “dumb” I would be shocked if you knew what an academic sounded like, even more shocked if you could determine when someone is trying to make a point, since you don’t seem to have one.